.380 was made great again (.380 Intercepter Taofledermaus)

[PappyM3]

Yes, yes it does

The term adequate does not involve comparison to something else.

Adequate: Sufficient to satisfy a requirement or meet a need. synonym: sufficient.

380 can meet objective terminal ballistic standards derived from analysis of actual recipients of bullets.

The only trick with 380 is that you need to be more careful with bullet/load selection.

If you want to say 380 is inadequate for a duty/military pistol, I’d agree. But EDC is a completely different CONOPS.

 

[Animal357]

The only trick with 380 is that you need to be more careful with bullet/load selection.

There is no bullet/load selection in the world that makes 380 adequate

 

[PappyM3]

There is no bullet/load selection in the world that makes 380 adequate

What are your measures of performance and measures of effectiveness? Do you have any data for these metrics?

 

[Animal357]

What are your measures of performance and measures of effectiveness? Do you have any data for these metrics?

Yes. Muzzle energy of 380 is half that of 9mm and 9mm is not an effective man stopper

 

[PappyM3]

Yes. Muzzle energy of 380 is half that of 9mm

Oh, so you’re one of those people who think that muzzle energy is an important factor in the lethality of pistol cartridges. … got it.

Edit: Also, we already went over this. “Adequate” has nothing to do with a comparison to anything cartridge. It is determined against requirements.

So, what muzzle energy is required for a cartridge to be adequate for self defense, and how did you arrive at that threshold requirement?

Reading material:

INTERNATIONAL WOUND BALLISTICS ASSOCIATION

www.thinlineweapons.com

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Weird insult, but okay.

View attachment 878516
View attachment 878517
View attachment 878518

I’d still be perfectly comfortable carrying a pocket 380. And likewise I would be comfortable recommending a locking block 380 for someone with less grip strength.

Of course 9mm has advantages. But that doesn’t make 380 inadequate.

The beauty of .380's is pocket carry (although I have pocket-carried a Glock 17 and a Sig P365 Macro. There's a reason I'm fussy about what clothes I buy.). Putting a red dot on anything kind of defeats the purpose of compact.

 

[PappyM3]

… Putting a red dot on anything kind of defeats the purpose of compact.

Only for pocket carry. The red dot has zero affect on printing when IWB.

 

[kalash]

Yes. Muzzle energy of 380 is half that of 9mm and 9mm is not an effective man stopper

That's not a relevant metric though.

 

[Animal357]

That's not a relevant metric though.

Wow. Just wow

 

[Animal357]

Oh, so you’re one of those people who think that muzzle energy is an important factor in the lethality of pistol cartridges. … got it.

Absof***inglutely

Too much nonsense in this thread. I’m out

 

[pastera]

My BG380 just gay enough to fit easily into my cycling jersey pocket.
Only real threats are dogs and road ragers. Neither one likes being the recipient of a wireless hole punching.

If I had a 9mm the same size, I'd carry it. But the Bodyguard does a lot better than a water bottle, hand pump or plastic tire lever.

 

[kalash]

Wow. Just wow

Absof***inglutely

Too much nonsense in this thread. I’m out

Come back after you've done some actual research on wound ballistics instead of repeating fudd nonsense about mUh EnErGy.

 

[T-Unit]

.45 has less ME than .40, but you don't see people saying .45 isn't adequate in comparison. Probably the most important factor with the smaller calibers after reliability is penetration and with pretty much all of them you will find an ammo that is capable of delivering the minimum for effective penetration.

 

[Animal357]

Come back after you've done some actual research on wound ballistics instead of repeating fudd nonsense about mUh EnErGy.

I am far more knowledgeable in the subject than you

 

[PappyM3]

I am far more knowledgeable in the subject than you

Please elaborate on why muzzle energy is such an important measure of performance for handgun cartridges.

And what is the threshold for muzzle energy in order to effectively stop a threat?

 

[pinefd]

I'm thinking of trying these Underwood +P .380s in my three .380 guns. They get great reviews, and the stats on them are great for .380s: 380 ACP +P 68gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo


Frank

 

[Agnotology]

I'm thinking of trying these Underwood +P .380s in my three .380 guns. They get great reviews, and the stats on them are great for .380s: 380 ACP +P 68gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo


Frank

68 grains at 1400 fps is definitely gonna hurt. Just under 300 ft-lbs

 

[pastera]

Saami pressure
380: 25k
9mm: 35k

(35-25)/25 = 40% more energy capacity available

That 40% won't make a difference in most self defense situations but when it does you need it.
However 380 in your hand is always better than nothing.

 

[Agnotology]

Saami pressure
380: 25k
9mm: 35k

(35-25)/25 = 40% more energy capacity available

That 40% won't make a difference in most self defense situations but when it does you need it.
However 380 in your hand is always better than nothing.

I thought SAAMI for .380 is 21,500? 9mm is right. 25k might be +p? I've heard american company loadings for .380 are around 16 to 18k PSI, and so are considerably weaker than what they can be.

 

[67ray]

I’d still be perfectly comfortable carrying a pocket 380. And likewise I would be comfortable recommending a locking block 380 for someone with less grip strength.

Of course 9mm has advantages. But that doesn’t make 380 inadequate.

 

[Coyote33]

OK, what is this "Taofledermaus" bull crap? Is it some German thing? All I think of is Nostradamus.

 

[67ray]

Standard non +P 380 ACP is about 200 ft-lb.

Teddy Roosevelt was shot by a 38 Colt that was stopped/slowed by a 50 page speech in his vest pocket. 38 Colt had about the same energy 200 ft-Ib

When Teddy Roosevelt Was Shot in 1912, a Speech May Have Saved His Life | HISTORY

'It takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose.'

www.history.com

Think I'll pass on the 380
.

 

[PappyM3]

View attachment 878966

“Enhance!”

 

[pastera]

I thought SAAMI for .380 is 21,500? 9mm is right. 25k might be +p? I've heard american company loadings for .380 are around 16 to 18k PSI, and so are considerably weaker than what they can be.

I may have gotten dyslexic